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  #31  
Old 15th March 2017, 07:56 PM
khazaria khazaria is online now
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As I wrote in gedmatch's forum, Cinnamon Girl belongs to the Northeastern Mexican match cluster.

She has two tiny segments matching to me and my parents (one on each) that phase and triangulate and are almost certainly Jewish in origin tho Spanish is not impossible. As the segments are only 4.9 and 4.4 cM respectively they are borderline.
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  #32  
Old 15th March 2017, 08:05 PM
lab lab is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khazaria View Post
As I wrote in gedmatch's forum, Cinnamon Girl belongs to the Northeastern Mexican match cluster.

She has two tiny segments matching to me and my parents (one on each) that phase and triangulate and are almost certainly Jewish in origin tho Spanish is not impossible. As the segments are only 4.9 and 4.4 cM respectively they are borderline.
What is match cluster, if you don't mind explaining? How do you know if you're a part of one? Sorry if that's a stupid question
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  #33  
Old 15th March 2017, 08:11 PM
khazaria khazaria is online now
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It's an endogamous colonial era population comprised of mixed Spanish, Italian, Jewish, and Amerindian ancestries. AncestryDNA identified that cluster as one of its DNA communities. The telltale sign is when I see certain people in an uppermost match list.
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  #34  
Old 15th March 2017, 08:18 PM
khazaria khazaria is online now
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See Figure 3 in "Clustering 770,000 genomes reveals post-colonial population structure of North America" in Nature Communications in February 2017 at
http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14238
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  #35  
Old 15th March 2017, 08:19 PM
lab lab is online now
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Originally Posted by khazaria View Post
It's an endogamous colonial era population comprised of mixed Spanish, Italian, Jewish, and Amerindian ancestries. AncestryDNA identified that cluster as one of its DNA communities. The telltale sign is when I see certain people in an uppermost match list.
Oh wow that is very interesting. Thank you for explaining. Are these clusters only available to look at if you've tested with Ancestry?
EDIT: thanks for the link

Last edited by lab; 15th March 2017 at 08:25 PM.
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  #36  
Old 15th March 2017, 10:47 PM
josh w. josh w. is offline
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Originally Posted by lab View Post
Oh wow that is very interesting. Thank you for explaining. Are these clusters only available to look at if you've tested with Ancestry?
EDIT: thanks for the link
Some members of the northeast Mexico cluster came from Sephardic converso ancestry in the 1500s. They fled from Iberia at the start of the Inquisition and Expulsion. On another thread, I mentioned that I had a converso family FF match from the Azores, originally from northeast Portugal. A member of the Portuguese branch of the family migrated to northeast Mexico and was appointed the first Governor of Nuevo Leon (Monterey). This family intermarried with another converso family from Iberia. The second family was from Huelva, Spain (Gulf of Cadiz). I have FF matches with branches of both families, but they do not show evident Jewish ancestry--the lines separated from mine in the 1500s. Columbus sailed from Huelva a couple of days after the Expulsion Edict was issued. It was probably not a coincidence.

Last edited by josh w.; 15th March 2017 at 10:51 PM.
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  #37  
Old 16th March 2017, 01:27 PM
josh w. josh w. is offline
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Originally Posted by josh w. View Post
Some members of the northeast Mexico cluster came from Sephardic converso ancestry in the 1500s. They fled from Iberia at the start of the Inquisition and Expulsion. On another thread, I mentioned that I had a converso family FF match from the Azores, originally from northeast Portugal. A member of the Portuguese branch of the family migrated to northeast Mexico and was appointed the first Governor of Nuevo Leon (Monterey). This family intermarried with another converso family from Iberia. The second family was from Huelva, Spain (Gulf of Cadiz). I have FF matches with branches of both families, but they do not show evident Jewish ancestry--the lines separated from mine in the 1500s. Columbus sailed from Huelva a couple of days after the Expulsion Edict was issued. It was probably not a coincidence.
Nuevo Leon converso history and lore point to endogamy. However, if conversos are part of a much more inclusive cluster at Ancestry, then there was significant exogamy.

Nuevo Leon was one of the few Mexican provinces to accept conversos. Up to today there is a lot of concern about privacy due to fear of Anti-Semitism.
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  #38  
Old 20th March 2017, 02:59 PM
sungoddess49 sungoddess49 is offline
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My Origins vs. DNALand

I am in agreement with you on this subject.
My Origins from Family Tree DNA results were:

93% European
36% Scandinavian (Norway, Sweden, Denmark)
32% British Isles (Scotland, Ireland, Wales, GB)
24% Western + Central Europe (France, Germany, N.Italy)
1% Eastern European (Poland, Hungary)
6% Middle Eastern
4% Asia Minor (Turkey, Georgia)
2% Eastern Middle East (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan)

My DNA Land results were:

100% West Eurasian
69% Northwest European (Iceland, Scottish Argyll & Bute, Scottish GBR, British in England & Norwegian in Norway)
19% Southwestern European (Iberian Population in Spain & Portugal, Basque Spanish in Spain, Basque French in France, French in S. France)
1.8% Sardinian (Sardinia Island, Italy)
2% South Central European (Bergamo, Tuscany and Toscani in one other place, Italy)
1.6% Mediterranean Islander (East & West Sicily, Italy, Maltese in Malta, Cypriot in Cyprus, Ashkenazi/Levantine)
5.7% North Slavic (Estonian, Lithuanian, Belarusian in Belarus, Ukranian in East Ukraine, Mordovian & Russian in Russia)

So as you can see, My Origins says I am 6% Middle Eastern with no Iberian. I was thinking that they were reading my Iberian DNA as Middle Eastern. My paper trail definitely has Spain and Portugal. DNA Land is more accurate as to my paper trail and physical features, however I think I am a little less Northern European than their percentages. I have olive skin, black eyes, dark brown hair, and look very Mediterranian, so the only doubt I have with DNA Land is the percentages, but the rest looks fairly accurate. I also like how DNA Land gets way more specific about ethnicity which is also a plus. I had been curious about my Basque ancestry from GEDmatch and DNA Land confirmed it for me. I am adopted, so these websights have been a gold mine for me in figuring out my ethnicity. Before I found them people always thought I was Native American, so I am thankful for the genetic research.
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  #39  
Old 20th March 2017, 04:55 PM
ltd-jean-pull ltd-jean-pull is offline
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Originally Posted by josh w. View Post
Some members of the northeast Mexico cluster came from Sephardic converso ancestry in the 1500s.
Are these the people who often have T2e mtDNA that Felice Bedford is studying?
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  #40  
Old 20th March 2017, 06:52 PM
josh w. josh w. is offline
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Originally Posted by ltd-jean-pull View Post
Are these the people who often have T2e mtDNA that Felice Bedford is studying?
It is possible but I don't know the Mtdna lines of my FF matches. Ironically, one of Bedford's co-authors has the same surname of one or two of my FF matches. It is a common surname among the conversos of Nuevo Leon.
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