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  #1  
Old 21st September 2017, 04:15 AM
Bepunkt Bepunkt is offline
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Smile Exact same HVR1+HVR2 (all 13 codes) in haplogroup K

Hello,

I have with three persons the exact match with mtDNA HVR1+HVR2 (all 13 codes) in haplogroup K. They all live in spain and one of them has a jewish family.

Is that likely that I am also a jew, because of the exact same motherline?

In general the haplogroup K stands for jewish people?

Kind regards

Bepunkt
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  #2  
Old 21st September 2017, 08:19 AM
georgian1950 georgian1950 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bepunkt View Post
Hello,

I have with three persons the exact match with mtDNA HVR1+HVR2 (all 13 codes) in haplogroup K. They all live in spain and one of them has a jewish family.

Is that likely that I am also a jew, because of the exact same motherline?

In general the haplogroup K stands for jewish people?

Kind regards

Bepunkt
Not necessarily. Your common ancestor is probably a male and more likely non-Jewish than Jewish.
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  #3  
Old 21st September 2017, 09:49 AM
KATM KATM is offline
mtDNA: K1a3 | Y-DNA: R-L1308*
 
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Bepunkt, have you done the Full Mitochondrial Sequence test (mtFullSequence) or the mtPlus test? If you've done the mtFullSequence, what is your full haplogroup? Only certain subclades are known to be Jewish. As explained on Eupedia's page for Haplogroup K,

Quote:
Ashkenazi Jews are the ethnic groups with the highest percentage of K lineages today : 32% in average, and up to 50% among Ashkenazi Jews from Germany. There are only three typically Jewish subclades of K: K1a1b1a, K1a9, and K2a2a. There are other subclades, like K1a7, K1a8 and K2c, which are also found among people of Jewish descent, but they are very rare.
If you have not done the mtFullSequence, you may want to do so, to determine a possible answer to your question.

Remember that the countries specified for your mtDNA matches are self-reported; i.e., the person who matches you (or the person who manages that account) has listed the country of their Most Distant Known Ancestor in their direct maternal line (not FTDNA) as they know it. They only know what their research has shown, which may or may not be accurate.
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  #4  
Old 21st September 2017, 01:35 PM
Bepunkt Bepunkt is offline
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Originally Posted by georgian1950 View Post
Not necessarily. Your common ancestor is probably a male and more likely non-Jewish than Jewish.
what do you mean? its about the mtDNA not Y. And the match is with a female person.
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  #5  
Old 21st September 2017, 01:47 PM
Bepunkt Bepunkt is offline
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I made the mtPlus test.

But I asked is that likley to be a jew or have jewish ancestors, if MVR1 and MVR2 is exactly the same with a 100 Percent jewish woman? (assumption: the woman is 100 percent jewish)



Quote:
Originally Posted by KATM View Post
Bepunkt, have you done the Full Mitochondrial Sequence test (mtFullSequence) or the mtPlus test? If you've done the mtFullSequence, what is your full haplogroup? Only certain subclades are known to be Jewish. As explained on Eupedia's page for Haplogroup K,



If you have not done the mtFullSequence, you may want to do so, to determine a possible answer to your question.

Remember that the countries specified for your mtDNA matches are self-reported; i.e., the person who matches you (or the person who manages that account) has listed the country of their Most Distant Known Ancestor in their direct maternal line (not FTDNA) as they know it. They only know what their research has shown, which may or may not be accurate.
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  #6  
Old 21st September 2017, 03:06 PM
KATM KATM is offline
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It may be possible, but I think it would depend on how far back you and your match can go on your respective trees, and if you can find the connection between you and the match. Has the match with Jewish ancestry done the mtFullSequence test? You can see this has by looking in the column next to the match's name, where it would show "FMS" for Full Mitochondrial Sequence. While you're at it, check to see if "FF" (for Family Finder) is shown for this match, and see if he or she is in your Family Finder matches (if you've taken the Family Finder test, of course).

My suggestion is to get the mtFullSequence test in any case, if you can afford it. You could wait until when the Holiday Sale starts sometime in November; on top of the sale prices, FTDNA offers coupons each week of the sale, which can be used along with the sale pricing. That may make it more affordable to you.

Once you have your Full Sequence haplogroup, you can see if it is one of the K subclades that are considered Jewish. If your Jewish match has the same subclade, that will make it more likely that you also had matrilineal Jewish ancestry.

You should check out the "mtDNA Matches Page" in the FTDNA Learning Center. Once on that page, scroll down to the "mtDNA Matches Page - Questions" area, and see the question "On the mtDNA - Matches page, are only exact matches shown?" This is what it says:
Quote:
There are currently two sets of rules for mtDNA matching.
  • For those who have tested HVR1 (mtDNA) or HVR1 and HVR2 (mtDNAPlus), only exact matches are shown. SmartMatching is also used to prevent a match between different haplogroups.
  • For those who have tested the mtDNA Full Sequence (mtFullSequence), three differences are allowed. These differences include cases of heteroplasmy. Two high frequency insertion/deletion locations are completely excluded from difference counts. These are mutations at positions 309 and 315.
Next, see the chart on the "Maternal Lineage Tests" page. It shows that:
  • Exact matches for the mtDNAPlus test have a 50% confidence level to be between about 700 years to about 1,300 years in the past (28 to 52 generations). There is no 95% confidence level for the mtDNAPlus test.
  • With the mtDNAFullSequence test, there is a 50% confidence level that the match will be within 125 years (5 generations), and a 95% confidence level for the match to be within 550 years (22 generations).
Thus, the mtFullSequence test has a better chance to show a relationship within a genealogical timespan. Some or all of your matches shown at the mtDNAPlus level may not show as exact matches if they did the mtFullSequence test.

Last edited by KATM; 21st September 2017 at 04:56 PM.
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  #7  
Old 21st September 2017, 04:00 PM
georgian1950 georgian1950 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bepunkt View Post
what do you mean? its about the mtDNA not Y. And the match is with a female person.
Yes, there would be a common female ancestor, too, from which the mtDNA haplotype would come. Not enough coffee this morning before posting, but the point is that the male ancestor is not necessarily Jewish and depending how the female descendants marry, they may fall into either a Jewish line or non-Jewish one.
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  #8  
Old 21st September 2017, 05:21 PM
KATM KATM is offline
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I should add to my most recent post. The matches you have at the mtDNAPlus level may not even be in the same subclade as you at the mtDNAFullSequence level.

In other words, you are in mtDNA haplogroup K; if you tested to the mtDNAFullSequence level, you may find your subclade to be something like K1a1b1b (shown as "found in Scandinavia and Britain" on the Eupedia page for haplogroup K). Your match may also be in the K haplogroup, but if the person tested with mtDNAFull Sequence, they might be a different subclade, such as K1a1b1a (shown as a "major Ashkenazi Jewish subclade"). Only the last letter for the two subclades is different, but in such a case, you would not have a common matrilineal ancestor.

So the fact that you have an exact match with Jewish ancestry at the mtDNAPlus level does not prove that you have Jewish ancestry.
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  #9  
Old 23rd September 2017, 10:36 AM
Bepunkt Bepunkt is offline
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ok, I will do one.

Thank you


Quote:
Originally Posted by KATM View Post
I should add to my most recent post. The matches you have at the mtDNAPlus level may not even be in the same subclade as you at the mtDNAFullSequence level.

In other words, you are in mtDNA haplogroup K; if you tested to the mtDNAFullSequence level, you may find your subclade to be something like K1a1b1b (shown as "found in Scandinavia and Britain" on the Eupedia page for haplogroup K). Your match may also be in the K haplogroup, but if the person tested with mtDNAFull Sequence, they might be a different subclade, such as K1a1b1a (shown as a "major Ashkenazi Jewish subclade"). Only the last letter for the two subclades is different, but in such a case, you would not have a common matrilineal ancestor.

So the fact that you have an exact match with Jewish ancestry at the mtDNAPlus level does not prove that you have Jewish ancestry.
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  #10  
Old 24th October 2017, 11:33 PM
wombat wombat is offline
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even a 100% match with full mtDNA might be as far back as 3000 years ago, for an HVR1+HVR2 only match it could easily be 10,000 or more years back

Do any of you show anything more than just plain K from the HVR1+HVR2 test alone?
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