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  #1  
Old 6th April 2016, 09:48 AM
okie1086 okie1086 is offline
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Full sequence mtDNA and MRCA

I had my great grandfathers cousin do a full sequence mtDNA test. I should have gotten my results back by now but they have been pushed back of course. The man tested is a direct maternal line descendant of my 3rd great grandmother Maria Armijo from New Mexico. She is who I get my Native from.

My autosomal Native percentage doubled on my moms test, then that doubled on my grandmothers brothers test. Then I also had my great grandfathers cousin do an autosomal test as well as the mtDNA and his Native percentage double what my grandmothers brother was. He is at 16% Native and interestingly 2% West African. I know the African comes from my line because my grandmothers brother showed trace amount of West African.

So, now that I have the back story explained. I am curious about how the mtDNA full squence works as far as most common recent ancestor. Do certain markers have specific time frames, or is it more based on genealogical information my matches have?
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Old 6th April 2016, 04:03 PM
lgmayka lgmayka is offline
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Full-sequence mtDNA follows the strict matrilineal line: mother's mother's mother's mother, all the way back to "Eve."
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Old 6th April 2016, 05:06 PM
okie1086 okie1086 is offline
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Yes I am aware of that. What I am asking is if certain markers have dates of origin. Like with yDNA certain snp's have a general age and origin. For instance, my original yDNA haplogroup was R-L21. Then I tested downline of that and got a more recent haplogroup R-S1051 which has a certain date and place of origin.

So is mtDNA like yDNA in that regard? Instead of getting a generic "C" maternal haplogroup would the full sequence test get a more recent specific haplogroup than that?
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Old 6th April 2016, 06:04 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okie1086 View Post
Yes I am aware of that. What I am asking is if certain markers have dates of origin. Like with yDNA certain snp's have a general age and origin. For instance, my original yDNA haplogroup was R-L21. Then I tested downline of that and got a more recent haplogroup R-S1051 which has a certain date and place of origin.

So is mtDNA like yDNA in that regard? Instead of getting a generic "C" maternal haplogroup would the full sequence test get a more recent specific haplogroup than that?
Yes, the full sequence mtDNA test will take the person tested to the most recent known subclade. And, if there is a new mutation found in the person's results, it's possible that it will form a new subclade at some point in the future if someone not related to him is found to have the same unique new mutation in that haplogroup.

However, keep in mind that most people in the U.S. with any Native American ancestry have small amounts, due to admixture with Europeans in the last few hundred years. Perhaps if someone has a Native American ancestor from 100 or 150 years ago who lived on a reservation, that person would have a significant amount of Native American ancestry due to the ancestor on the reservation probably not having much European admixture.

And the mtDNA test will only give you information about the strict maternal line - mother, maternal grandmother, maternal grandmother's mother, etc. If your relative doesn't have Native American ancestry in that very thin ancestral line, the mtDNA test won't pick it up.

The haplogroups that are considered to represent Native American ancestry are A, B, C, D and some X.
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Old 6th April 2016, 06:28 PM
Armando Armando is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okie1086 View Post
I am curious about how the mtDNA full squence works as far as most common recent ancestor. Do certain markers have specific time frames, or is it more based on genealogical information my matches have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by okie1086 View Post
Yes I am aware of that. What I am asking is if certain markers have dates of origin. Like with yDNA certain snp's have a general age and origin.

So is mtDNA like yDNA in that regard? Instead of getting a generic "C" maternal haplogroup would the full sequence test get a more recent specific haplogroup than that?
There aren't any web sites that calculate the age of each mtDNA subclade found from Full Sequence testing like YFull does for Y-DNA.

If Ann Turner reads this she might be able to give us an idea how they calculate time estimates of the branching of mtDNA subclades.

There was a very recent article that calculated updates time estimates of the separation of Native American mtDNA haplogroups from Siberians, the dating of Native American founder lineages, and the population expansion of Native Americans. http://advances.sciencemag.org/conte.../e1501385.full

It's unfortunate that we can't just pop our Native American mtDNA subclade into a website and find out when it first appeared in an ancestor.
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Old 6th April 2016, 07:55 PM
okie1086 okie1086 is offline
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Here is a side by side of my grandmother and great great great grandmother.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20160111_123606.jpg (118.1 KB, 23 views)
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  #7  
Old 6th April 2016, 08:04 PM
okie1086 okie1086 is offline
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My grandmother would have been about 1/12th Native according to the tests I have done with family members. My great great great grandmother would have been atleast half. But considering she was from a Hispanic family in New Mexico, that doesnt necessarily mean that one of her parents were full blood Native because most people were mixed in that area so the mixed percentages just kept maintaining through each generation. But on paper I got to her maternal great grandmother. I hit a dead end there. But the reason I am pretty sure that maternal line will be Native is because the majority of hispanics have a Native mtDNA.
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  #8  
Old 6th April 2016, 08:13 PM
okie1086 okie1086 is offline
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And just to clarify. My Native "source" Maria Armijo, is my mothers, mothers, fathers, fathers, mother. So I know my mtDNA would not show that line. Interestingly enough my actual mtDNA is C5c1a, which is a European branch of the C group.

But the relative I had tested, his mothers mother was Maria Armijo. I was shocked to find that he was still alive and agreed to do the test. So now we will just have to wait and see if Maria's maternal line is infact Native.
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  #9  
Old 7th April 2016, 12:44 AM
thetick thetick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armando View Post
There aren't any web sites that calculate the age of each mtDNA subclade found from Full Sequence testing like YFull does for Y-DNA.
There was paper published a few years ago that had estimates for all mtdna haplogroups at that time:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...2/bin/mmc1.pdf

Most of the data is not very useful because the range is SO HUGE:

For my mtnda it is not useful other than to tell me my mtdna "matches" can be thousands of years back.
H5a1f - 2977.7 years ago with a standard deviation of 2634.6 years.

None are in genealogical time. FTDNA never advertises this for obvious reasons. Seriously a single mtdna mutation could be between a mother and child or many thousands of years. MtDNA MCRA ranges are really that big.

Last edited by thetick; 7th April 2016 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 7th April 2016, 04:10 AM
Jomid59 Jomid59 is offline
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Hi,

At this web address you will find the study made by Behar et al in 2012, which resulted in the re-assessment of the mitochondrial tree...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...02929712001462

Download the accompanying PDF file Document S1 (the file downloads as mmc1.pdf), in here you will find the estimated origin dates for all the known groups at that time.

Mine is H23 and can be found on page 103, estimated at 2064 years ago.
page 103

edit: just moticed this is the same file as given by thetick in the previous post
H23 2064.2 2842.0

Last edited by Jomid59; 7th April 2016 at 04:13 AM. Reason: added date of study and note of previous post.
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