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Old 13th December 2014, 10:50 AM
Sunflower Sunflower is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 10
So confused. Please help.

Hi S9 H9,

Thank you so much for responding.

There is a very steep learning curve for genetic genealogy, so do not be intimidated - it just takes time.
I totally agree. I've read the tutorials on this site in search of answers to my questions, however, they seem to only “scratch” the surface. I feel my learning curve is so steep, to the point I don't even know how to formulate the questions for the answers I need.

Thanks again for all your help.
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Old 13th December 2014, 11:37 AM
Sunflower Sunflower is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 10
So confused. Please help.

To Kathy Johnston,

Some populations are not well sampled in the database.
I'm starting to come to that same conclusion. For example, the L2e haplogroup. If I recall correctly, I think there was one or two in the mitosearch database.

According to FTDNA, 65% of my African origins are from West Africa. Further, according to FTDNA L2e has origins in Guinea-Bissau.

However, under "My Origins", the “Heat Map” covers almost the entire African region EXCEPT the African nations of West Africa, i.e. Guinea-Bissau, Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Senegal Gambia, Cape Verde, Mauritania, Mali, etc. I don't have a clue why they are not included.

I have searched high and low on the internet, and found very little about this haplogroup (L2e) except it was formerly labeled as L2d2 (I think).

I didn't mention this in my initial post because I didn't want to further confuse things, but very early on I was contacted by someone who shared the same haplogroup, L2e, who matched me only on HVR1, rather than both HVR1 and HVR 2.

The geographical locations of their ancestors were very near to mine, and shared the same surname. However, the common surname was that of my mother's paternal line, and not that of her maternal line.

So far, I have not been able to make a connection. Just thought it was interesting that we shared a commonality on my mother's paternal line.
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Old 13th December 2014, 01:00 PM
MMaddi MMaddi is offline
yDNA: R-CTS2509; mtDNA: T2e
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,391
Originally Posted by Sunflower View Post
Hi Kathy Johnston,

Thank you so much for your response. It was very helpful.

Yes, my results seem to be what I expected, not really any surprises. I understood (so I thought) the basics of mtDNA, i.e. me, my mother, her mother's maternal line, and so forth.

However, I didn't understand how the shared genetic relationships factored in with the four males of mostly European ancestry whose mtDNA was so different than mine. It wasn't so much their genders as it was their haplogroups that had me scratching my head.

My mother's maternal line goes back to a a male and female born in the mid-1800's who were mulatto. My mother's paternal line goes back to a Native American female born in the early 1800's who had six children with a white male born in the same time period. Blue eyes are quite common in my mother's family, including her 2 siblings, her father, and some of his siblings. So, the 28% European was not unexpected.
I've bolded your statement above which I think indicates the problem you're having that's confusing you. The problem is treating mtDNA and autosomal DNA as the same for testing result purposes. The two are like apples and oranges.

It seems that you're thinking about your Family Finder matches from the viewpoint of your mtDNA haplogroup. None of the autosomal tests, including Family Finder, take into account your mtDNA haplogroup when finding matches for you in the database. The matches are all based on shared segments of a certain size found on the 22 pairs of autosomal chromosome and the pair of x chromosomes for a woman (just the one x for a man).

The mtDNA is passed down from mother to children, sons and daughters. Then the daughters pass it down to their children. Since the father is not involved at all in the children's mtDNA, there is no recombination. The mtDNA is strictly from one line in your tree - mother, maternal grandmother, maternal grandmother's mother, etc. You can call this the strict maternal line.

At the level of just gg-grandparents, you have 16 ancestors, but only one of them is in your strict maternal line. The other 15 gg-grandparents may or probably have different mtDNA haplogroups than you have. Their descendants may or may not have the same mtDNA haplogroup as you, but they share autosomal DNA with you from the common gg-grandparent. The Family Finder results are finding that shared DNA from the common gg-grandparent and telling you that you and the match are cousins, even though you don't have the same mtDNA haplogroup.

As you mentioned above, you have known mulatto ancestors. So, some of your ancestors were white. The matches with European mtDNA haplogroups you have are probably descendants of some of your white ancestors.

Last edited by MMaddi; 13th December 2014 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 13th December 2014, 02:20 PM
Sunflower Sunflower is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 10
So confused. Please help....I Think I've Got It!

Hi MMaddi,

Thank you so much for your response, I really appreciate it.

I've bolded your statement above which I think indicates the problem you're having that's confusing you. The problem is treating mtDNA and autosomal DNA as the same for testing result purposes. The two are like apples and oranges.

It seems that you're thinking about your Family Finder matches from the viewpoint of your mtDNA haplogroup.
What you're saying is absolutely correct! That's exactly how I have been thinking. I did expect matches for white cousins, I just didn't realize that they may not share the same haplogroup.

Thank you so much for putting your response in such simple terms. It was written like a page straight out of “mtDNA For Dummies” by MMaddi (just for me), and now I think I'm finally starting to get it; mtDNA haplogroups are not necessarily shared with distant cousins.

Again, thank you so much for meticulously breaking it all down for me.
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Old 13th December 2014, 05:34 PM
keigh keigh is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 477
The Family Finder is a totally different test than the mtDNA test. The haplogroup that you have comes from your mother's mother's mother's line and distant cousins found through the FF test can come from any line back from you, not just the narrow maternal line shown by the mtDNA test.

I have people who match me exactly on the full mtDNA test, so we share a common ancestress, but they don't match me at all on the FF test as our common ancestress is way back beyond the scope of a FF match.

You may never find a person that exactly matches your mtDNA haplogroup unless you actually have a close maternal line descendent test. Y-DNA (paternal line) and mtDNA (maternal line) tests are great for confirming matches you already suspect down your father's or mother's lines, while FF autosomal-DNA is good for discovering relations who are nearer in genealogy to you.
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Old 13th December 2014, 11:43 PM
GST GST is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 519
L2e is extremely rare so I'm not surprised that you have not found any information on it. I looked at the mitotool database and found 6 samples in GenBank and 1 in the 1000 Genomes study. If you tested the full sequence, you can compare your results to these samples to see if you match one of them more closely than the others.

GenBankID, Author, country of origin
EU092724, Behar, Guinea-Bissau-Mandinga
DQ112709, Kivisild, Dominican
FJ460523, Costa, Tunisia
JQ044816, Barbieri, BurkinaFaso-Mande/Bias
EF657291, Herrnstadt, Africa
JQ045049, Barbieri, BurkinaFaso-Mande/Ssamo
NA19108, 1000Genomes, Nigeria-Yoruba

The Kivisild sample is presumably Dominican of African origin and the Herrnstadt study did not identify a country of origin, so only 5 of these samples are helpful for geographic origins.

The common ancestor of L2 is estimated to have lived about 90,000 years ago, and L2e experienced a bottle neck of about 60,000 years, and is defined by 25 mutations that accumulated during that time. It's difficult to estimate the age of L2e given the small number of samples, but it might be approximately 20,000 years. So you definitely need the full sequence test to get a more precise estimate of your location in the L2e tree.
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Old 7th April 2018, 07:14 PM
Byebuga Byebuga is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 5
L2e - Central Sudanics

Nice to find another L2e

My paternal-grandmother is L2e (L2d2); she's from a Central-Sudanic speaking tribe called Aringa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aringa_people) in North-Western Uganda.

This frequency map of L2e seems to be inline with Uganda's Central-Sudanic speakers migration from the West (illustrated in orange on the bottom map below). Many speakers of this Nilo-Saharan branch reside in south/central Chad and extreme-northern Cameroon.

Frequency distribution maps for mtDNA haplogroup L2 -- L2e found on map e)


Map of Central-Sudanic Speakers


mtDNA L2d2 among different populations:
Cameroon (Hide) [1/23]
Cameroon (Fali) [1/41]
Cameroon (Mandar) [2/37]
Cameroon (Podokwo) [1/20]...

Interesting enough, all the aforementioned Cameroonian ethnic groups are from northern Cameroon; some more specifically in the extreme north. Perhaps there's more L2e affinity with Nilo Saharan or Chadic speakers in and around the Chad basin -- that would explain L2e showing up among the small sample of Kanuri (Nigeria/Niger). "Kanuri (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanuri...e-Decalo1997-5) groups have traditionally been sedentary, engaging in farming, fishing the Chad Basin, and engaged in trade and salt processing".

I did a little more digging and found the publication below; it affirms the Chad Basin connection -- proportionately, the Buduma/Yedina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buduma_people) have the highest detection of any population so far, I believe their sample size was n=30 (5/30, 17%)...

"L2e (~47 ka) shows high frequencies in around Lake Chad: Buduma/Yedina, currently Chadic speakers (17% L2e and 30% L2a, b and c) and lesser among Fulani and Fali, North Cameroon, currently Niger-Congo speakers (3-5% L2e)."
The 200,000-Year Evolution of Homo sapiens sapiens Language and Myth Families based on the mtDNA Phylotree, Fossil mtDNA and Archaeology: A Thought Experiment (2014) (https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ns_Language_an d_Myth_Families_based_on_the_mtDNA_Phylotree_Fossi l_mtDNA_and_Archaeology_A_Thought_Experiment_2014) - James B. Harrod.
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