I2a - "mega thread"

[Kurgan]

I thought I'd start what I hope to be the "main" I2a discussion thread.

A couple of thread topics for discussion that I personally would like to explore are:

-- glacial refugium (Iberian penninsula, Dinaric alps, Black sea coast, Caucasus region, Anatolia, etc.)

-- latest archaeological findings as they relate to European, Eurasian Steppe, and Anatolian genetic testing. Let's talk facts, not run-on speculation based on poor/ brief/ questionable historical accounts.

-- your earliest ancestor's country/state/city of origin.

Also, what is your terminal SNP?

If you feel you need more testing, experts like, Bernie Cullen, Zdenko Markovic, and Lawrence Mayka can hopefully chime-in and guide you.

Most importantly, DO NOT SPEND A RED CENT until you get advice from these guys. I can't tell you how many hundreds of dollars I saved due to the good advice of these fine gentlemen.

[Kurgan]

Paternal: I-A2423 (tested at ySeq.net)

I2a2 'Dinaric' L621 > CTS10228 > S17250 > BY128 > Z16971 > A2423 (I-A2423)

The average age of A2423 is 918 years (based on Big Y results to date)

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Maternal: H7c3

H7 is an uncommon branch of haplogroup H and is found at low frequencies in both Europe and the Near East. Its age is estimated to be around 15,000 years.

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"MyOrigins" (autosomal DNA):

Eastern Europe: 58%
Southern Europe: 16%
Western & Central Europe: 16%
Finland & Northern Siberia: 6%
Asia Minor (Anatolia): 3%

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Family Finder Matches (Y-DNA) spread all over the map, which would explain "MyOrigins" above.

Major Clades of my autosomal DNA matches are:

R1b -- 16 matches
R1a -- 11 matches
I2a -- 8 matches
I (old I) -- 2 matches
J2 -- 6 matches
E1b -- 2 matches
G -- 2 matches
N -- 1 match
T -- 1 match

[Kurgan]

An excellent, easy-to-read thread on the origins of Europeans...

3 ancient tribes!

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29213892

[Kurgan]

Another fantastic, easy-to-read explanation of the origins of ancient Europeans. A must read for all I2 folk!

http://news.sciencemag.org/archaeology/2014/11/european-genetic-identity-may-stretch-back-36000-years

[Kurgan]

from the article above:

"The man from Kostenki shared close ancestry with hunter-gatherers in Europe—as well as with the early farmers, suggesting that his ancestors interbred with members of the same Middle Eastern population who later turned into farmers and came to Europe themselves. Finally, he also carried the signature of the shadowy western Asians, including a boy who lived 24,000 years ago at Mal’ta in central Siberia. If that finding holds up, the mysterious DNA from western Eurasia must be very ancient, and not solely from a wave of nomads that entered Europe 5000 years ago or so, as proposed by researchers in September."

[Kurgan]

An even better article containing all the elements noted in other articles:

http://peaceandjustice.freeforums.net/thread/198/neanderthals-humans-interbred-europe-years?page=3

[lgmayka]

The average age of A2423 is 918 years (based on Big Y results to date)

Here is YFull's haplotree for I-A2423 (also called I-Y12911). YFull offers two different dates:

Formed 1800 ybp - This branch began to diverge from its parent/siblings about 1800 years ago.

TMRCA 750 ybp - The examples examined by YFull have a Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA) of about 750 years.

These are clearly very rough numbers, because YFull has only identified one reliable defining SNP (so far) for the clade--an unrealistically low number if the clade was really gestating for 1050 years. Perhaps YFull is waiting for a third example before committing to a full list of common SNPs.

[Kurgan]

EDIT: you are correct. I went back to look and the dates have indeed changed: 761 ybp

Rough, but certainly young.


BRANCH ID SAMPLE ID NUMBER OF SNPS COVERAGE (BP) FORMULA TO CORRECT SNPS NUMBER CORRECTED NUMBER OF SNPS FORMULA TO ESTIMATE AGE AGE BY THIS LINE ONLY
YF02992 5.0 7962187 5.0/7962187*8467165 5.32 5.32*144.41+60 828
YF01658 4.0 7717992 4.0/7717992*8467165 4.39 4.39*144.41+60 694

[Kurgan]

Here is YFull's haplotree for I-A2423 (also called I-Y12911). YFull offers two different dates:

Formed 1800 ybp - This branch began to diverge from its parent/siblings about 1800 years ago.

TMRCA 750 ybp - The examples examined by YFull have a Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA) of about 750 years.

These are clearly very rough numbers, because YFull has only identified one reliable defining SNP (so far) for the clade--an unrealistically low number if the clade was really gestating for 1050 years. Perhaps YFull is waiting for a third example before committing to a full list of common SNPs.

When you think we'll see the full list?

[lgmayka]

When you think we'll see the full list?

My suggestion (not based on any specific knowledge) is that YFull may be waiting for a third example of your subclade. Some SNPs that look iffy on only two people (e.g., if the number of reads is low for both) may look more solid if a third example arrives.

[Kurgan]

Several I2a Project members that are I-Z16971 positive, 3 or 4 of them, have tested negative for both I-A815 and I-A2423. One of them did the Big Y.

[singingfalls]

I2a1b2a1a2

YDNA (Big Y)
I2, I-L460, I-P37, I-423, I-Y3104, I-L621, I-CTS4002, I-CTS10228, I-S17250, I-Y4882*

atDNA
Ancestry: 99+% Eastern European, <1% Finland/NW Siberia, <1% Scandinavia
FTDNA: 95% Eastern European, <3% Finland/NW Siberia, <3% Scandinavia

mtDNA
T1a1b Haplogroup

RSRS
H1
126C, 129G, 163G, 186T, 187C, 223C, 230A, 278C, 294T, 311T
H2
146T, 247G, 315.1C, 522.1A, 522.2C,

rCRS
H1
126C, 163G, 186T, 189C, 294T, 519C
H2
073G, 152C, 195C, 263G, 315.1C

Paternal Greatgrandparents: Stanislaw and Anastasia Petraszczuk

Paternal Grandparents: Ludwik (Petraszczuk) Petrowski and Katarzinia (Kyć) Petrowski

Maternal Greatgrandparents: Antoni Właż and Regina (Graszów) Właż

Maternal Grandparents: Wojciech Wlaż, Anna (Kukielka) Wlaż

Polish Ukrainian border lands

[singingfalls]

YDNA
I2a Bichon
Switzerland, Grotte du Bichon Male 13,560–13,770 cal.BP
Upper Paleolithic Europe

mtDNA
U5b1h
RSRS: 146T, 150T, 152T, 195T, 247G, [384G not found], 769G, 825T, 1018G, 2758G, 2885T, 3197C, 3594C, 4104A, 4312C, [5656G non found], 7028C, 7146A, 7256C, [7521G not found], 7768G, 8468C, 8655C, 8701A, 9477A, 9540T, 10398A, 10664C, 10688G, 10810T, 10873T, 10915T, 11467G, 11914G, 12308G, 12372A, 12705C, 13105A, 13276A, 13506C, 13617C, 13650C, 14182C, 16129G, 16187C, 16223C, 16230A, 16270T, 16278C, 16311T, 16519T (Jones 2015)

[singingfalls]

A new update to the YSEQ I2a M423 Panel available. Info can be found here: http://www.singingfalls.com/dna.html#ydna Scroll down to the update section. Image of the tree can be found here: http://www.singingfalls.com/images/d...M423_panel.jpg

[rickdelotto]

Sorry I'm late...

Forgot there were Forums here...oops.

I am I-P37.2*Alpine in the Old Terminology, I-A8689 now, and I-Y11949 at yFull. Very few connections here, the nearest TMCRA being 500 AD or so. Family is from Tai di Cadore, extreme northern Italy (Northern gateway for the Serene Republic, back in the day) with "possible ties" to Hvar, Croatia.