We all know of two sources of J in Europe north of the Mediterranean:
1) The Jewish Diaspora.
2) Roman citizens and subjects spread during the days of the Empire.
The other cited source, which is essentially mere hand-waving, is the purported role of J in the spread of agriculture during the Neolithic Revolution.
So the question becomes: How to interpret instances of Hg J who (a) do not come from areas ever ruled by Romans or other Mediterraneans, and (b) have no known Jewish ancestry and are very far away from known Jewish haplotypes?
Here are the cases I know of:
1) VZGZF of Bavaria on Ysearch, 48 markers. Closest match is 5XQAC (below), genetic distance of 16 at 48 markers. Otherwise, closest is GD of 19 at 37 markers.
2) 5XQAC of Slovakia on Ysearch, 42 markers. Closest match is VZGZF (above). N92DY (below) is only 1 step away, but at only 12 markers. Otherwise, closest is GD of 15 at 31 markers.
3) GFCKV of Poland on Ysearch, 37 markers but only 12 uploaded. All 37 markers are on the Polish Project web site. You can Ysearch on all 37 markers through this URL:
GFCKV is 11 away from VZGZF (above) at 37 markers, and 13 away from 5XQAC (above) at 31 markers. All others are at least 20 away at 37 markers.
Note, however, that GFCKV and VZGZF are closer than one might think. VZGZF has CDYa,b=37,37 whereas GFCKV has CDYa,b=32,37. The difference is almost certainly not 5 independent mutations, but rather a single deletion (37 => 32) or a doubling (32,37 => 37,37). Thus, their nominal GD of 11 should probably be considered more like 8.
4) N92DY of Poland on Ysearch, 12 markers. Closest is 5XQAC (above). Others are at least 3 away at 12 markers.
5) 8C96B of Poland on Ysearch, 37 markers. His placement in the Unusual category is debatable. At 37 markers, matches of probable Jewish ancestry are as close as 15 away. At 25 markers, West of England is only 3 away; and at 12 markers, Parra Yepez of Ecuador is an exact match.
6) Kit # N27315 in Polish Project, no Ysearch entry. He is only debatably Unusual. You can search on his markers via
He is 1 step away from Minns of England, and 2 away from various.
Now let us consider the Recent Ancestral Origins lists available for these:
7) At 25 markers, a German is only 2 away from GFCKV.
8) At 12 markers, a Czech is only 1 away from GFCKV.
9) At 12 markers, a Slovak is only 1 away from N92DY.
10) At 12 markers, an Englishman and a German are only 1 away from kit # N27315.
So what can we make of all this? Here's my guess:
A) Any of these descended from the ancient Alans should display the same characteristics as the members of Hg G who appear to be Alan-descended. Namely, (a) they should be found in regions where the Alans settled, and (b) they should have common ancestors from 1500-2000 years ago in the British Isles, where so many Alans-Sarmatians apparently settled. These conditions apply to #5 and #6 above (Ysearch 8C96B and FTDNA N27315).
B) The others do not appear to be Alan-descended. Moreover, their spread into Slovakia, the Czech Republic, and Germany seems to rule out descent from the Lipka Tatars too. (One would assume that Lipka Tatar descendants would be found mostly in Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine.)
And yet, these others are clearly related to each other much too closely to be merely the scattered remnants of an 80-centuries-ago agricultural revolution. Indeed, VZGZF, GFCKV, and the latter's 23/25 German and 11/12 Czech matches appear to have a common ancestor within the last millennium, and may form a cluster.
Similarly, 5XQAC, N92DY, and the latter's 11/12 Slovak match appear to form a cluster.
So does anyone have any credible hypotheses?
1) The Jewish Diaspora.
2) Roman citizens and subjects spread during the days of the Empire.
The other cited source, which is essentially mere hand-waving, is the purported role of J in the spread of agriculture during the Neolithic Revolution.
So the question becomes: How to interpret instances of Hg J who (a) do not come from areas ever ruled by Romans or other Mediterraneans, and (b) have no known Jewish ancestry and are very far away from known Jewish haplotypes?
Here are the cases I know of:
1) VZGZF of Bavaria on Ysearch, 48 markers. Closest match is 5XQAC (below), genetic distance of 16 at 48 markers. Otherwise, closest is GD of 19 at 37 markers.
2) 5XQAC of Slovakia on Ysearch, 42 markers. Closest match is VZGZF (above). N92DY (below) is only 1 step away, but at only 12 markers. Otherwise, closest is GD of 15 at 31 markers.
3) GFCKV of Poland on Ysearch, 37 markers but only 12 uploaded. All 37 markers are on the Polish Project web site. You can Ysearch on all 37 markers through this URL:
GFCKV is 11 away from VZGZF (above) at 37 markers, and 13 away from 5XQAC (above) at 31 markers. All others are at least 20 away at 37 markers.
Note, however, that GFCKV and VZGZF are closer than one might think. VZGZF has CDYa,b=37,37 whereas GFCKV has CDYa,b=32,37. The difference is almost certainly not 5 independent mutations, but rather a single deletion (37 => 32) or a doubling (32,37 => 37,37). Thus, their nominal GD of 11 should probably be considered more like 8.
4) N92DY of Poland on Ysearch, 12 markers. Closest is 5XQAC (above). Others are at least 3 away at 12 markers.
5) 8C96B of Poland on Ysearch, 37 markers. His placement in the Unusual category is debatable. At 37 markers, matches of probable Jewish ancestry are as close as 15 away. At 25 markers, West of England is only 3 away; and at 12 markers, Parra Yepez of Ecuador is an exact match.
6) Kit # N27315 in Polish Project, no Ysearch entry. He is only debatably Unusual. You can search on his markers via
He is 1 step away from Minns of England, and 2 away from various.
Now let us consider the Recent Ancestral Origins lists available for these:
7) At 25 markers, a German is only 2 away from GFCKV.
8) At 12 markers, a Czech is only 1 away from GFCKV.
9) At 12 markers, a Slovak is only 1 away from N92DY.
10) At 12 markers, an Englishman and a German are only 1 away from kit # N27315.
So what can we make of all this? Here's my guess:
A) Any of these descended from the ancient Alans should display the same characteristics as the members of Hg G who appear to be Alan-descended. Namely, (a) they should be found in regions where the Alans settled, and (b) they should have common ancestors from 1500-2000 years ago in the British Isles, where so many Alans-Sarmatians apparently settled. These conditions apply to #5 and #6 above (Ysearch 8C96B and FTDNA N27315).
B) The others do not appear to be Alan-descended. Moreover, their spread into Slovakia, the Czech Republic, and Germany seems to rule out descent from the Lipka Tatars too. (One would assume that Lipka Tatar descendants would be found mostly in Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine.)
And yet, these others are clearly related to each other much too closely to be merely the scattered remnants of an 80-centuries-ago agricultural revolution. Indeed, VZGZF, GFCKV, and the latter's 23/25 German and 11/12 Czech matches appear to have a common ancestor within the last millennium, and may form a cluster.
Similarly, 5XQAC, N92DY, and the latter's 11/12 Slovak match appear to form a cluster.
So does anyone have any credible hypotheses?
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