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-   -   Make DF27 simple for me (http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=40533)

benowicz 20th October 2016 01:29 PM

Make DF27 simple for me
 
I don't want a lot of confusing words, but I want to get the basic jist of what people think about DF27 right now. I have seen some forum postings from a few years back and want to know if this is still how people understand it now.

I think the last important findings divided DF27 into three big categories: Z196-,Z278+ and Z278-. None of them have a very strong geographic concentration except that a smaller group under Z278+, M153+, is considered 'Basque'.

Although the other SNP statuses are less geographically defined, I heard some people argue that British DF27 tended to be Z196-, Spanish DF27 tended to be Z278+, and that Dutch DF27 tended to be Z278-.

Is this still what people think or are they thinking something new now? Again, I don't want confusing talk about the Bronze Age Refugeum or whatever, just to know where people are.

Armando 20th October 2016 08:48 PM

That's a gross oversimplification of the distribution. I pulled data from Alex W's BigTree back in August. 37% of the people with British ancestry are Z196+. People with ancestry from Spain and Portugal are in most of the subclades. There are some subclades that they are missing from so far, but it could be due to a limited dataset, and other subclades that they are found more commonly in but nothing found in completely or almost completely. Z278 currently has 18 flags from Iberia and Latin America while all of DF27 had 118 flags from Iberia and Latin America. So Z278 is only about 15% of Iberian DF27.

Stephen Parrish 18th November 2016 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armando (Post 431396)
That's a gross oversimplification of the distribution. I pulled data from Alex W's BigTree back in August. 37% of the people with British ancestry are Z196+. People with ancestry from Spain and Portugal are in most of the subclades. There are some subclades that they are missing from so far, but it could be due to a limited dataset, and other subclades that they are found more commonly in but nothing found in completely or almost completely. Z278 currently has 18 flags from Iberia and Latin America while all of DF27 had 118 flags from Iberia and Latin America. So Z278 is only about 15% of Iberian DF27.

As of today, Yfull's experimental haplotree displays 29 SNPs one level downstream from DF27.

Stephen Parrish
Co-administrator, DF27+ and Subclades DNA Project

Armando 19th November 2016 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Parrish (Post 432147)
As of today, Yfull's experimental haplotree displays 29 SNPs one level downstream from DF27.

Stephen Parrish
Co-administrator, DF27+ and Subclades DNA Project

26 out of those 29 also exist at Alex W's BigTree

The three that do not are because of one of two reasons. Either because Alex Williamson has not analyzed the files or because they are simply using different names for some of the same SNPs. Either way they are small groups. The 1st is Y24895 which has two people. One of those people is from Mexico and ultimately most likely from Iberia. The 2nd is Y3505 which has two people from Cagliari from the Francalicci et al. 2013 study. The 3rd is a group of 5 people from Hampshire in the UK.

So, other than 3 possibly missing branches from Alex W's BigTree there is more information and granularity in his tree as far as DF27 branches and where certain DF27 SNPs are found. That's mostly due to his service being free. It's good to have two different sites because they offer two services. Alex does not analyze BAM files and YFull does and Alex does not provide an estimated TMCRA.

The_Contemplator 20th November 2016 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armando (Post 432170)
The 1st is Y24895 which has two people.

That branch is also on the Big Tree under a different name as those SNPS were unnamed when Alex must have analyzed those files. So that makes it 27 out of 29 branches.

I took a look at the DF27 branch in both trees. The Big Tree has 551 DF27 kits while YFull has 378. Both have 93 kits from 1k Genomes. YFull has 16 ERS/ERR kits that Big Tree doesn't. So removing the kits from research projects, that makes the count 458 DF27 kits on Big Tree and 269 on YFull.

Armando 20th November 2016 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Contemplator (Post 432200)
That branch is also on the Big Tree under a different name as those SNPS were unnamed when Alex must have analyzed those files. So that makes it 27 out of 29 branches.

I see now that Y24895 is 17840874 G to T per https://www.yfull.com/snp-list-search/

I also see that it shows up in the Big Tree group of R-8992312-T-C

So, for that case it was the 2nd scenario that I had presented of Alex simply using different names for some of the same SNPs. More specifically Alex doesn't have a shorthand name at all. Either way, Alex didn't use the name that YFull uses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Contemplator (Post 432200)
I took a look at the DF27 branch in both trees. The Big Tree has 551 DF27 kits while YFull has 378. Both have 93 kits from 1k Genomes. YFull has 16 ERS/ERR kits that Big Tree doesn't. So removing the kits from research projects, that makes the count 458 DF27 kits on Big Tree and 269 on YFull.

Right, which is why I had stated there is more information and granularity in his [Alex's] tree as far as DF27 branches and where certain DF27 SNPs are found.

Since Alex's service is free there are more kits which leads to the more information and granularity of the DF27 tree. Alex's service is also normally faster and easier. There is no need to request a BAM file and the VCF file is readily available for download from the FTDNA page.

I already had the numbers since I have macros to pull the data but I hadn't posted them because Stephen Parrish seemed more interested in the SNPs one level downstream from DF27. I don't understand why he would be more interested in that than other information such as almost all of the same ones from YFull being found at Big Tree and more kits at Big Tree than YFull meaning more subclades below the SNPs one level downstream from DF27 at Alex W's Big Tree.

The_Contemplator 20th November 2016 05:10 PM

No argument here. As for his comment on SNPs one level under DF27, I don't know why that was mentioned actually. Seemed like a random bit of data out of the blue.


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