y-K haplotype?????????????

**Eki** · 14 August 2006, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Jambalaia32

Exactly which tribe or location represents Haplogroup y-K? The 3rd(I think) US President Thomas Jefferson is I learned,but that male haplotype is rare or remote is it not? Where was Thomas Jefferson's lineage from? aRE THERE many y-K males in England?

Y-haplogroup K doesn't say much:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K_(Y-DNA)

Haplogroup K (Y-DNA)
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In human genetics, Haplogroup K (M9) is a Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup.

It first appeared approximately 40,000 years ago in Iran or southern Central Asia. Today, haplogroup K and its descendant haplogroups are the patrilineal ancestors of most of the people living in the Northern Hemisphere, including most Europeans, many Indians, and almost all Asians. Other lines derived from paragroup K* are found among Melanesian populations, indicating an ancient link between most Eurasians and some populations of Oceania.

This haplogroup is a descendant of haplogroup F* (M89). Its descendant haplogroups are L (M20), M (M4), N (LLY22G), O (M175), P (M45) (and P's descendants Q and R).

Its subgroup K2 (M70) is present at a low level throughout Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. A famous member of the K2 haplogroup is Thomas Jefferson; his Y-chromosomal complement received prominence through the Sally Hemings controversy.

**cacio** · 14 August 2006, 05:18 PM

A good starting point is:

ISOGG 2018 Y-DNA Haplogroup K

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpK.html

K represents a broad and diverse set of subgroups. As Eki said, among European and Middle Eastern people there is only K2, which I believe reaches 10% in some middle eastern countries, and is present also in the Mediterranean at low, but detectable frequencies. The other K's (K3 etc.) are completely different branches. They are as distant to K2 as L,M etc are. They are found I believe in New Guinea and Australia, representing early colonizations of those areas.

cacio

**Duke** · 16 August 2006, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Jambalaia32

Exactly which tribe or location represents Haplogroup y-K? The 3rd(I think) US President Thomas Jefferson is I learned,but that male haplotype is rare or remote is it not? Where was Thomas Jefferson's lineage from? aRE THERE many y-K males in England?

Hello Jambalaia32,
I belong to hg K2 same as Thomas Jefferson and we probably have the same haplotype. They do say that hg K2 is rare in Northern Europe but my lineage came from Co.Cork Ireland as far as i know so far. I think Thomas Jefferson,s lineage came from Wales. There is a hg K2 project that started in July at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Y-Haplogroup-K2 that my tell you a bit more about hg K2.

**Richard Rauch** · 16 August 2006, 06:29 PM

There's a guy that has a same surname as mine on Ysearch.org but he's K2.

**Stevo** · 17 August 2006, 12:50 PM

I wonder if K, which is ancestral to L, M, N, O, and P (which is ancestral to Q and R) was not one of the first y-haplogroups, if not the very first, in Western Europe. Perhaps it was and is mostly extinct there now.

**MMaddi** · 17 August 2006, 01:42 PM

I thought I have read that K is not very common but neither is it rare in Italy. I had not seen one K among the members of the Sicily Project - until today. We have a new member who just tested with the Genographic Project and joined. He is predicted K2 by FTDNA on his personal page, although FTDNA is not confident enough to make a public prediction for him. So we didn't have a K or K2 member until yDNA result 71. You can see his haplotype on ysearch - look for ID QBVWP.

As I said above, I was surprised by having no K's or K2's in the Sicily Project until now. One would think that with Phoenician yDNA having a significant percentage of K and Italy having a noticeable percentage, Sicily would have more than 1 out of 71.

Mike Maddi

**cacio** · 17 August 2006, 08:22 PM

According to Capelli, the percentage of K(xN,P) in Eastern Sicily is 4.6, in SouthWest Sicily is 5.5 and in NW Sicily is 1.4. This would be a mix both of K2 and of L, although most likely K2 prevails. Given the small sample size for these areas, the estimates are rough, but I'd say we're talking about a percentage of K2 between 2 and 5% (and similar ranges seem plausible for southern Italy). So it is not surprising to find only 1 out of 70 so far.

While K2 is more common in the Middle East, we're still talking about small percentages. Capelli again estimates around 4-5% (for K2+L) for Lebanon and for Cyprus, and nowhere else in the Mediterranean does the group exceed 5%. (If I remember correctly, Iraq and Oman have larger percentages of K2, may be 10%, but I have to doublecheck). So even assuming a large admixture of Phoenicians (which I don't think is true - Sicily was largely inhabited before the Phoenicians), you wouldn't expect to find more than a couple of percentage points of K2. Incidentally, G is much more frequent in Sicily and in Italy.

As for Stevo's hypothesis of K being one of the first haplogroups in Europe, it is of course possible, but the numbers are too small. Besides, the distribution seems to point to a Middle Eastern origin. (Note incidentally that we're finding only K2, which is not ancestral to L-P). Maybe it came together with J2, maybe it came with the Phoenicians, maybe both.

cacio

**Kaiser** · 17 August 2006, 10:13 PM

Hg H & K2

Cacio: The percentages for Haplogroup K (M-9) and its sub-clade K2 (M-70) in Middle East, as determined by Semino et al, 2000, Zahery et al, 2003 and Regueiro et al, 2006 are as follows:

Haplogroup K: Iraq - 1.4, Lebanon - 3.2, Turkey 9.9, Iran 3.4
Haplogroup K2: Iraq 7.2, Turkey 3.3

Y-Chromosome data about Oman remains elusive.

**cacio** · 17 August 2006, 10:31 PM

Kaiser:
I saw data on Oman and Egypt Y in the following:

NCBI

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1182266

Oman has 8 (/121) and Egypt 8(/147) K2. Egypt has 1 R2 (whether by mistake or not).

cacio

**Kristin** · 18 August 2006, 12:00 AM

K group

Hi Jambalaia32,

You have the K MtDNA and the Y chromosome. That will be easy to remember.

K2 is found in England. It originated in the Caucus mountain region I believe. It may be related to the Scythians and Kurgans. It is found in the Tatar groups today. It is very common amongst the coastal Lebanese and the Maltese. It is found in Egypt's population.

Thomas Jefferson's paternal lineage is in Wales. His father spoke Welsh as did he. This lineage is from northwest Wales. It found its way to the British Isles by way of the Phoenicians. That is what I believe anyway. It is interesting DNA to say the least.

**Stevo** · 18 August 2006, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by cacio

As for Stevo's hypothesis of K being one of the first haplogroups in Europe, it is of course possible, but the numbers are too small. Besides, the distribution seems to point to a Middle Eastern origin. (Note incidentally that we're finding only K2, which is not ancestral to L-P). Maybe it came together with J2, maybe it came with the Phoenicians, maybe both.

cacio

Small numbers are exactly what one should expect of a y-haplogroup that is mostly extinct (if that's what it is) in Western Europe.

Small numbers could indicate vestigial survival of an early group rather than a set of exotic Phoenician imports. It also appears the numbers are small everywhere else.

It's just a thought, not a commitment.

**Jambalaia32** · 19 August 2006, 06:42 AM

Surnames.

Originally posted by Richard Rauch

There's a guy that has a same surname as mine on Ysearch.org but he's K2.

Is everyone's surname their real,authentic,from God name or just an adopted or made up/aquired name? I think it's about 50/50.I'm not saying unrelated people with your name are frauds,but that everyone doesn't take a name so seriously.Maybe they /or someone just names themselves that to fit it or emulate a local.

**Jambalaia32** · 19 August 2006, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by Kristin

Hi Jambalaia32,

You have the K MtDNA and the Y chromosome. That will be easy to remember.

K2 is found in England. It originated in the Caucus mountain region I believe. It may be related to the Scythians and Kurgans. It is found in the Tatar groups today. It is very common amongst the coastal Lebanese and the Maltese. It is found in Egypt's population.

Thomas Jefferson's paternal lineage is in Wales. His father spoke Welsh as did he. This lineage is from northwest Wales. It found its way to the British Isles by way of the Phoenicians. That is what I believe anyway. It is interesting DNA to say the least.

Yeah,we all have a Mtdna and males a Y-dna.What's your point? Other's aren't too hard to remember,but too many to remember.That's why posts list details and stay on the forum for an amount of time. you witch...................just kiddin',no I'm not.

**Jambalaia32** · 19 August 2006, 07:48 AM

Thanks

ThankYou everyone,for informing me about who or where y-K is.I heard old President TommyKnockers(Thomas Jefferson) was,but I didn't see much information about that group anywhere on the HaploMaps.So I thought,where are they,where's y-K from? So I've another history to learn of .....again Thanks.

fast facts:y-K2 has a presence in Wales
is virtually unrelated to other earlier y-K strains found elsewhere
Is found in populats. like the Labanese/maybe Phoenicians are their ancestors.

Interesting.

y-K haplotype?????????????

y-K haplotype?????????????

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